Hey everybody, this is Daniel Patrick and this is episode number 319 of the Mandolins and Beer podcast, brought to you in part by my favorite website, the Mandolin Cafe. How's everybody doing? I hope you are doing well. My guest this week is Thomas Castle. He's got a brand new album coming out on August 21st. It's called The Guitar Collection, and don't let the title mislead you. It is filled with incredible mandolin playing as well as singing and acoustic guitar playing, some bass as well. It's absolutely fantastic. It's 10 guests with him on each track, and we'll talk all about that on the album. I premiered a track Wednesday, so hopefully you already heard that, Red Mountain Wine. And again, the whole album is great. I have links below to where you can purchase copies of the album. Again, touring is tough, making a living as a musician is tough. Let's support our favorite musicians. Also during the episode, we talk about the Woodbox Heroes and Trey Hensley, who Thomas actually plays with. So I have links below to— or in the description, I should should say, to check them out. Also, Bob Minner and Butch Baldessari's new classics get talked about as well. But trying to, each episode as much as I can, trying to just focus on the music of the guest who has a new album coming out. So I play some snippets of the new singles, and— or the 2 singles, and then obviously a snippet of Red Mountain Wine, which I premiered on Wednesday. And thanks to Thomas for letting me do that. That was super nice of him. Actually headed to Nashville today. I'm recording this and putting this up here on a Tuesday. It'll come out on Friday, but I'm heading to Nashville for some pretty exciting stuff that I'll talk about a little bit more in depth next week. So that'll be fun. Hoping to meet up with Thomas there and a few other people if possible. And yeah, just a reminder, my Patreon, you can, for as little as $2 a month, you can sign up, support this podcast. Also, you can do it for free by just following me on Instagram, Facebook. Or telling your friends. That would be amazing if you did that. And also my incredible sponsors, visit them. They help this podcast every single week, like Peghead Nation. With Peghead Nation streaming video courses in mandolin, guitar, banjo, fiddle, dobro, ukulele, and bass, you'll learn bluegrass, old-time, and other styles from some of the most talented players and instructors in roots music. People like Sharon Gilchrist, Joe K. Walsh, Mike Compton, John Reichman, Aaron Weinstein, Marla Fiebus, Chad Manning, Ian Corey, and Ethan Setiawan. Courses include high-quality multi-angle video lessons, downloadable notation and tab, play-along tracks, and plenty of tunes and songs to play. The best part, of course, is you can join any of Peghead Nation's video courses now. You get your first month for free. Check out pegheadnation.com and use that promo code mandolinbeer, all one word, at checkout. Northfield Mandolins— let's build more than a mandolin together. Check out their website at northfieldmandolins.com or download their app at Mando Summit. .app for lots of special performance recordings, demonstrations, and special workshops. And follow their Instagram as well. Killer, killer stuff on their Instagram. And not just their stuff, people who play their stuff, they, they share all kinds of stuff. It's great. Tone Slabs, get yourself a slab of tone. You can go to toneslabs.com, look at the selection of picks they have. They have all the shapes and sizes you could ever want. If they don't have what you're looking for, just shoot them a message and tell them what you are looking for and they can probably make it happen. They're doing magic in the Slaboratory. Get yourself a slab of tone and go to toneslabs.com today. Ellis Mandolins, handcrafted mandolins designed and built in Austin, Texas. And Elderly Instruments. Elderly Instruments is your trusted source for new, used, and vintage fretted and stringed instruments. For the experienced to the beginner player, their vast selection of mandolins, guitars, banjos, ukuleles, and did I say mandolins? Includes all of the accessories and books to go with them. All instruments are inspected and set up for easy playability, and their down-to-earth, award-winning, and knowledgeable staff are there to help. In their 54th year, they're family-owned, operated. They ship worldwide, and you can visit them anytime at elderly.com. All right, let's get into this episode with Thomas Castle. Again, Thomas's new album comes out on August 21st. Links are below. You can go and pre-order it now. Uh, he's got vinyl and CD, and like I say, let's support our favorite musicians. Have a fantastic week. Cheers, everybody.

I'm coming down to Baltimore, half drunk in the freezing rain.

All right, well, man, it is an absolute pleasure to have my, my return guest on. It's been a minute since since we've even seen each other, but I've got Thomas Castle back. How's it going, Thomas?

I'm great, Daniel. Yeah, how are you doing?

Doing good, man. So nice to catch up with you, buddy.

Absolutely.

We, uh, we're gonna be talking about Thomas's brand new album, which comes out on the 21st of August. Is that right?

That's right. Yeah, Friday, August 21st.

August 21st. It's called The Guitar Collection. Surprisingly, I was like, wait a minute, is he just playing guitar on here? But nope, there's tons of killer mandolin playing and, and vocals, and there's just guitar on there. So we're gonna talk about that. But first, what, what have you been up to besides getting ready to put this album out, buddy?

Yeah, man. Well, yeah, I've been working on this album for, I guess, well over a year now. And, uh, in the meantime, I've been doing a lot of playing. For the last couple years, I've been out with Woodbox Heroes, uh, since spring of 2024 I've been playing with them. So that's kind of the main thing. And then, uh, a lot of this year I've been out with Trey Hensley and just You know, making music as much as I can with whoever I can.

You, um, that Woodbox Heroes, you guys have played, uh, some pretty legendary stages for, for, uh, this style of music, uh, like the Opry a couple times, haven't you?

Yeah, yeah, quite a few. I, I'm not sure what the count, uh, on the band is, but definitely, you know, like, I don't know, 7, 8 times, I think, for the band and And, uh, it's a— I mean, it's just a ridiculously fun group of folks to play with.

Yeah, I'm a fan of all the, uh, the social media stuff too, like the backstage footage or doing like covers and stuff. It's really great.

Thanks. Yeah.

How'd you— how did you meet those guys?

Well, yeah, they started— I guess the band started in 2023, and I wasn't there, obviously. Seth Taylor was playing mandolin. And then that seat kind of opened up in early '24, and I didn't really know most of the folks in the band. I had done a session with Barry Bales, the bass player. I guess it was in 2020, so I knew him a little bit, and I knew Matt Menefee, the banjo player. And I just got a text from Barry one day asking if I could fill in on a couple of gigs. And, you know, after those 2 gigs, I got a bunch more, and then I just never left.

That's great. And for people who might not know who Barry Bales is, I mean, he's most famous for probably playing in, uh, with Alison Krauss for so many years.

Totally. Yeah, 30-something.

Wow.

Yeah, yeah, more than I've been alive. Yeah.

What's it, what's it like to get, um, you know, a message from somebody like that? Was like completely out of the blue for you to be like, holy cow, Barry Bales?

You definitely stop what you're doing, you know. It's not— it's— it was not a name You know, I stopped popping up on my phone every day for sure. Uh, so it got my attention. But, uh, yeah, it's just, it's just been a total joy to get to know all of them and play with them, you know, as much as we do.

When, with something like that, would they already have— how many records out did they have? Did they just have the one record out at that time?

Yeah, and it actually wasn't even out. I think I had joined up like a month before it came out, and my— actually, my second show was the release show at the Station Inn.

Oh wow, cool.

Yeah.

So it wasn't like you had to learn tons of material. You didn't have to— they're like, we've got—

Yeah, it was, it was one record. And, you know, one record's not even a whole show. So it was like one record plus, uh, some of Josh's solo material and some covers and things for the show. And then we've just worked in more stuff and more original music since then.

Yeah, that's great, man. And then Trey Hensley, how'd Trey Hensley come, come about?

Man, I've just known Trey for quite a long time, and we'd never really played much together. But, uh, I guess it was last year when he kind of decided to start going out on his own. The first thing I did with him was, uh, like officially was we went and played, uh, duo down at a festival in Texas. And then he started doing more of a full band thing, and I've been out on that. whenever availability allows.

Yeah, I didn't even realize that he really sang. I just— I guess I see so much of his social media stuff, I'm like, man, he can sing too?

Yeah, he's a threat. He's a threat on the microphone too, you know.

And you have, um, some shows coming up with him and Woodbox Heroes, I would imagine, then coming up here in the, uh— Yeah, in the future.

That's the main thing on my calendar. And both of those, like, you can find on my website. both bands. But yeah, between those two, it's a pretty full schedule and a few solo shows here and there.

And, um, well then, let's, let's dive into this incredible album, dude. Guitar Collection. So, so first off, what— let's tell everybody about what this album— what— why it's called Guitar Collection, and then we'll, and we'll kind of go in from there.

Yeah, well, it's a, it's a guitar duets record, mandolin guitar duets. There is bass on the album, but it's, it's kind of you know, set up as a duet record like a Tone Poems or a, you know, Skaggs and Rice, things of that nature. Uh, and it's 10 different guitar players, um, and it's, it's all people that I already play with a lot or have spent a lot of time around. You know, I, I feel like I, I did send some texts, you know, that— and we just never— Other folks who, you know, we never ended up find the time to record or whatever. But I kind of, as the album took place, it really— the focus shifted to like, okay, I could, I could call some folks that maybe I love their playing, but we've never played together, as, you know, a legend that I don't even know. But it kind of just became apparent to me, hey, I should just make this more of like a— it's almost a resume album because it's like, It's all these people that I've spent a good amount of time playing with. Um, so everything felt much more natural and, and a little bit more honest that way to me.

Yeah. How, how did you— so these, all these tunes, it's such a great wide variety of songs. Like, speaking of, like, Trey Hensley, um, you know, how did, uh, how did you guys choose that tune?

When I was a young boy, I was working for the state. I wasn't making much money, I was staying out late. I'd go down at nighttime and play music in the bars and take my breaks out underneath the stars.

Oh, Trey and I are both like huge Tom Petty fans. So I think we were just kind of— I was texting him, just rattling back and forth different Tom Petty songs. And I kind of, you know, threw around a few, but I wanted something that was a little more up-tempo so that Trey could shred a little bit. And, you know, I didn't want to do like the stuff that's been beat to death, like Running Down a Dream. And, uh, I had heard, uh, Making Some Noise, which is off the Great Wide Open album in the early '90s. And I heard that intro, like, you know, Mike Campbell guitar riff, and I was like, man, that's such a Bill Monroe thing. Like, it was such this, like, downstrokey bluesy guitar riff. I was like, that would sound so good on the mandolin, you know? And it just wound up being a great tune to, like, trade verses on and trade solos. Came together pretty naturally.

How long had you been thinking about doing this project, uh, prior to actually being like, okay, Let's start reaching out to people.

Man, I would say there's probably a year of me talking about it before I ever called anybody. And it's funny because Jeff Pickrew, that played bass on the record, I had, I had told him about the idea definitely, you know, a year before we started doing anything. And, and at the time, it was like my, my plan was to, uh, use bass players that were kind of specifically associated with whoever the guitar player was. You know, so that it was like a trio thing. But when I started putting together the record, I wanted a little bit more of a constant sound, you know, because again, the guitar and vocal seat was nearly changing on every song. Uh, so I just enlisted Jeff to play across the whole album.

And now Jeff, he was the, uh, he didn't— he's one who just recently filled in like the last Nickel Creek tour, didn't he?

Yeah, he did the whole, uh, Nickel Creek tour, uh, you know, '20, '23, and '24, I guess. And he actually played some bass on my last album, which was like a full band record. Yeah, but you know, the thing with this album, and I guess what kind of pushed me to do it now, because I wanted to do a duet record for a long time, was that I really have no need to have like a full band, uh, project or product, you know, right now. Uh, I'm doing so much playing with Woodbox Heroes, with other people, kind of in sideman role that it's like, okay, this is a good time to do a fun album that I don't have to put together a band and go out and tour and promote.

Right.

You know, I can still tour it, uh, as, you know, with some of the guys from the album playing, playing in, you know, duo shows. But, you know, it was a good chance to do kind of a novelty record.

Yeah, and I, I wouldn't say even novelty record just because I would— I'd be— this thing is killer, man. Like, I mean, I know, I don't— I know totally what you're saying, but like, I don't want anybody to be like, oh, it's different. Yeah, it's— dude, it is so good. I mean, yeah. So, um, did you do this— how many batches of sessions did you end up doing? There's 10 songs on the album.

It was, it was 10.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, it was a different day for every song, you know, and we— not like we recorded the whole day, but it was, uh You know, 10 calendar days.

Yeah. Did you do it in multiple studios too?

Yeah, I can't even remember how many. There were quite a few. The, uh, the bulk was done either at Ben Suratt's studio in Nashville, where I've cut a bunch of records. I did a— I did my entire last solo record there and did a Circus Number 9 album there. So that's a— that's a room I feel very comfortable in. We did probably 3 or 4 songs there, and then we did another 3 or 4 at the ETSU studio in Johnson City. Like, with the, you know, I tried to kind of cater to the folks that where they lived, not have everyone travel. So like the Tim Stafford and the Trey Hensley and Josh Martin tunes we did up in Johnson City, Tennessee. The one with Dale Ann Bradley we did at Brian Turner's studio, which is near Cumberland Gap, Tennessee, which is Kind of where Dale Ann lives around. And then actually a couple were recorded in my home studio. And, you know, so it was really a matter of just kind of like making it work when and where we could.

Wow, dude, in your home studio? Because— and I don't say that in a negative way, it's just this whole album sounds like it was done in, you know, like the studios you, you mentioned. Every one of these tracks sounds incredible. I would not be able to pick out— oh yeah, what ones you did in your home. For real?

Yeah.

Now, can I ask that? Can I ask which one you did?

I guess the main one that we did totally live, uh, at, at the house was the one with Bob Minner, Lost Springs. And Bob and I were just sitting across from each other with a, you know, gobo between us. And then, uh, mostly just a bunch of overdubs at the house, vocal stuff, uh, for myself and some of the guests. Like the Nick Fallon track, I think we did all the vocals in my home studio after we cut the track elsewhere. And, uh, but we— Tom Utes, we did that at his studio as well. Similar vibe, totally live.

Oh man, that's great. What, what's your, um, home studio setup like as far as mics and such?

Yeah, well, I actually use the same mandolin and vocal mics across the record regardless of studio just so that I would have, you know, that consistency. Uh, so the Manland setup was a KM84. So I have a 1977 KM84, you know, Neumann mic. And then I kind of, instead of going stereo, I really like to go multi-mono with a ribbon mic in the 84, basically the capsules as close together as possible. So you don't really get this like wide pan sound, but you do have this kind of color palette to work with where you can mix in more of the ribbon or more of the condenser. And from song to song, it's, you know, the blend is different. I've never been a big, like, stereo mandolin guy because to me the mandolin is a very, like, pointy, direct instrument. It's not this, like, kind of sonic wash like a guitar is. It doesn't need to have this wide thing. So the ribbon I use is an SE VR2 active ribbon. And I use those through, uh, you know, the preamps were different, but it was always like API-style preamps, um, for mandolin. And on vocals, I use a Stam, uh, 87, which is like a vintage U87 clone.

Oh no, I've not heard of that. Cool, man, sounds great.

Yeah, yeah, thanks. Yeah, the Stams, they're made in, uh, Chile, uh, handmade, great mics.

Yeah, that's— they sound great on your voice, man.

Thanks. Yeah, it's, it's my favorite vocal mic for me that I've found.

Yeah, how'd you, how'd you discover those?

Uh, just internet gear hole, you know.

Yeah, yeah.

And, uh, ordered one from the guy, you know. They're, they're like pretty modestly priced, you know, or competitively priced for all the '87 clones that are out there, you know, Warm Audio, Peluso. So I just kind of took a chance on it and figured I'd sell it if I didn't like it, and I just love it.

Do you use external preamps or do you use them just the— just, um, in like the, uh, whatever software you're using?

Yes, it was all analog for the, for the whole thing. Uh, my home setup, I use CAPI, C-A-P-I. They're a company here in Nashville and they make, uh, kind of like vintage API console-style preamps. So instead of like the modern API preamps that you can get, these are modeled after like the '70s consoles. They're a little bit dirtier, a little bit warmer. And, uh, from studio to studio, I try to just use stuff that's like that. So I think, you know, some studios I was in the API console and like a modern API console, uh, you know, whatever I could find that had that sound.

Let's talk a little bit about some of the guests and just kind of how maybe how you got to know them. I think one that I think I've, I've known that you've been friends with him, but Tim Stafford, man, I mean, he's just, uh, oh yeah, a legend, you know, in, in, in the bluegrass world and killer songwriter, wrote a killer book, a killer guitar player, singer.

Yeah, he's, he's the whole deal.

I've known—

or I've known him for a really long time, and, and, uh, I mean, honestly collaborated with him probably more than anyone. I've written more songs with him than I have with anyone else for sure. And he's on— I think he's on all but one of my records that I've made. Uh, so he's just, you know, he's always my first phone call for anything that I can thing to put them on. And, you know, we, we did a song that was just written by him, uh, Ramblin' Heart.

You gotta rest the spirit and a ramblin' heart and an aching to be free. I've been up on a mountain I'll bend down on my knees. Well, she's the kind of woman I've always loved. But no strings could tie me down. Nothing she could ever do or say would ever turn my head.

You know, it was a Mountain Heart song originally, you know, 20-something years ago. But there's no recording of Tim ever doing it. And I love the way he does the song. And it's totally different than the Mountain Heart recording, which is great. Steve Gulley sang it. But the way Tim does it is just a different thing, and it's so Tim. And when we started working on this record, I think that was the first thing I said, hey, will you do Ramblin' Heart on this? And we trade verses on it, but I was just glad to bring into existence a recording of him doing that song, just as a fan.

Yeah, I didn't realize he didn't have his own recording of it.

No, no, he, you know, I think it was kind of in his early songwriting. Oh, you know, I'd have to check with him to be sure, but it was around that time when he first started, uh, writing a lot and getting his songs cut. And, uh, there's— I love co-writing with him, but there's like this magic to me that like all of the songs that he wrote by himself are on a different level than the ones that he's co-written with me or anyone else. I just love them. They're just because they're so Tim. You know.

Yeah. And how about Frank? Um, how do you say his last name?

Oh, Frank Rishi.

Rishi. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Who's now the new guy, the new guitar player in East Nash Grass.

That's right. Yeah. So Frank's the guy I've just played a ton of music with, uh, for 10 years now. You know, he's here in Nashville. He's been here for, I don't know, 20-something years, maybe even more. But he is just like total joy to be around, just incredible guy to play music with, the nicest person I've ever met, you know, and such a just natural dude, you know, everything he does just sounds incredible. And I think Jeff suggested Red Mountain Wine.

Ain't got no money, ain't got no home, ain't got nobody to call my own, but I'm satisfied with nothing to do but bum for a dime for some reason.

He said, you know, we were going through songs and And Jeff had done some gigs with Frank recently, to when, you know, recently when we did the session, and Frank had sang Red Mountain Wine on those gigs just as a standard, you know, just, hey Frank, you want to sing one? And sang Red Mountain Wine, and it just, it just wound up being a great cut.

Got to meet him when he came here with Bronwyn.

Um, oh yeah, and that's— I've done a lot of, I guess, playing with Frank in that, uh, situation.

Oh, right, right. Yeah, and I'd never met him before, and man, like, everything you just said about him is exactly what I felt after hanging out with him for a few minutes.

I'm like, wow, he's the coolest.

Yeah, yeah, dude, the cut with Michael Pruitt is, um— Oh yeah, that guy's voice floors me. That sounds like you— oh yeah, you could have been like, you know, I recorded this song, I found an old recording from a 19— '50s country guy, and, uh, that was a legend somewhere. And I just sang along with that, and we used technology. He sounds like he fell out of an era with his voice. It's wild, man, how good his voice is.

He's great. And, you know, he's a mandolin player. Like, he's, he's not known as a guitar player, but I've heard him play guitar a number of times. And, and, like, I think when he was living here in Nashville, I, uh, did a couple gigs where he played guitar and I played mandolin. I loved his guitar playing. And, uh, singing. And he's a label mate of mine on Common Loon who's got this new record. And, uh, you know, I was, I was towards the end of the production of the album. I was needing to make a few more calls. I was like, man, why don't I do one with Pruitt? That would be awesome. And, uh, you're right, like, I was sitting in the control room with Ben Suratt and we were— Pruitt was in the vocal booth and just like everything he's saying, we were just in there laughing because it was so good, you know, and so cool. Just so interesting and different.

It's— yeah, it's— it doesn't sound like anybody, but then it also sounds like a voice from the past, you know, where you're like, yeah, it's, it's so familiar, but, you know, totally unique. Yeah, big fan.

Absolutely.

Yeah, you know, Dale Ann Bradley, she— no, she plays guitar on this, correct?

Yeah.

Yeah, dude, I, I didn't realize what a killer mandolin player she is too.

Oh yeah, there's a lot of recordings of her playing mandolin back in the day.

Yeah, and I guess I didn't realize it, but I met— the first time I heard her, I was— we were— it was at IBMA, and Sister Sadie was playing like the big outdoor venue in Raleigh, and they were one of the earlier bands. And I wasn't sure— I was going to see the Bela Fleck thing, so, okay, you know, I had a booth there with Keith from Picky Fingers. And so we had— that had closed down, we walked across the street, and I'm like, Who in the heck is playing mandolin right now? Like, killer tone, so good. And then we get in there and it was, it was Sister Sadie when she was still with him. Like, oh my gosh, the original, original band. Yeah, I need to, I need to get her on the podcast, man. She was— she's the coolest.

Yeah, she's, uh, she's— again, she's just, you know, couldn't be sweeter and nicer of a person. And, uh, she's someone I've tried to always call her, you know, like a couple records of mine now, she did— she's definitely singing somewhere on the record, harmonies or, you know, lead part, just anywhere I can get her. She's just incredible, man.

What a cool— what a cool thing to have, you know, to meet all these people that you have a personal connection with to do an album like this from such a wide variety and multiple levels of successes. And it's just, man, so good.

Yeah, thanks, man. I appreciate it. Yeah, yeah, I tried to, you know, to choose songs that fit everyone, you know, that either was something that we had in common. Like the song with Dale Ann is a Marshall Family song, you know, they were a gospel group in the '70s, and, uh, Dale Ann used to sing a lot with David and Judy Marshall, you know, so she had sang that song many times way before I was born.

Man, how special. Were there any of these that were like, um, kind of like one takes? You're like, oh, I, I think we got it.

I don't— yeah, I don't know if anything is a first take, uh, but there's, there's definitely some second and third takes on there. Um, I think the, uh, I think Red Mountain Wine was maybe like the second take, you know, and, and, uh, Treehouse, the Tom Yutes song, that was maybe the second or third take. And, uh, you know, things go from more edited to totally unedited, you know, just as, as you have to in the studio. But like, uh, yeah, Treehouse is like pretty much untouched, as is that Hot Springs tune. You know, those are just completely live.

Actually, I just went down a Bob Minner rabbit hole, and the next thing I know, 2 hours have passed. So much music.

So Yeah, he's just got this touch that's, you know, totally compelling to me.

How'd you meet him? Just from being in Nashville and being players?

I think so. I don't even remember where we met or how we met, uh, but he played, he played on a tune on my last record. And it was one of those things like I'd actually just— I love 2 guitars, love playing with 2 guitars. And it was on, uh, Autumn Leaves Don't Fall, the song on my last record.

There used to be a time when time meant nothing. Summer days that never seemed to end. Fall would never come without fair warning. A message written in the changing wind. One by one, the leaves would fall gently to the ground.

I think I just had Stafford booked to be in the studio the next day, and I was at a jam that night, and I ran into Bob, who I'd already known, and I think already recorded with and worked with a little bit. But I, you know, ran into him, I was like, hey, you come to the studio tomorrow? And he came in and he played on that song. And I think It was definitely the first time I had him on anything of mine, and, uh, he's just got this magic touch. And, and, uh, he just— that's when we recorded at the home studio. He came over to the house one day and we just recorded that tune, did a few takes and picked the best one.

Who, um, did you do all the editing and stuff like that too, or did you hire somebody to do like the editing and mixing?

I, uh, there's a man— there's like 7 engineers maybe. Okay, but Oh, you know, only one guy mixed. Ben Bateson mixed it, and, uh, Ron Rice mastered. But I would hire— if I was at the home studio, Justin Alexander was the engineer there for like overdubs or for the live recording at the home studio. And, you know, whoever was the house engineer at any of the other studios we used. And then I did most of the editing myself, you know, not necessarily the recording, but like, you know, if I had to comp some vocals or if I had to you know, sift through takes or whatever. That was, that was all me on the laptop, you know.

What's great, and this is a huge art form, is, is the fact that every one of these songs sounds like they could have all been done at the same session live, or you could have put a mic in a living room and it sounds— you, you don't hear comps or takes. And it's like, and there's so many records where you can tell, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, if you listen to music at all or play it, you're like, oh yeah, that's def— that had to be an overdub, you know what I mean?

Yeah. Yeah, I tried to make this album, you know, because it's just so simple, you know, sonically and conceptually, but I tried to make it just feel as natural as possible at all times. And some of the stuff is highly arranged, you know, even like some of the mandolin breaks were kind of written out, you know, just because I wasn't sure what to do. But then some of them are totally improvised, you know, so it's pretty diverse in that sense, but I tried to make it sound, you know, as easy as possible, like as seamless and just natural as I could get it.

Yeah, you nailed it.

Thanks.

Yeah, man, for sure. Do you use your Duff on this entire project?

It was the Duff. Yeah, it's the only mandolin I used. We actually did a little intro to the Hot Springs tune that I ended up not including where I played— I can't remember the year, but Bob had a F4, like a, you know, '20s F4 that I played on the intro and just ended up not including the intro. But otherwise it was all the Duff.

Yeah, that thing is so killer sounding, dude.

It is. Yeah, I'm a big fan. I've got, you know, other mandolins, but I don't play them. Yeah, it's just the Duff.

I remember when you were waiting on it, um, at IBMA, and because you'd stop by the booth a couple times, you're like, hey man, can I, uh, play yours for a while? I'm like, yeah, yeah, please do.

I knew I wanted one, but they're, you know, there's not many of them out there. They They never come up for sale.

I know.

Uh, especially newer ones. Like, the ones that do come up for sale are often from the '90s, which are great, but I just— I kind of wanted a newer one. And, and I really love kind of the custom specs that, that Paul and I came up with.

Is it tone bars or X-bracing?

It is X-braced.

Yeah, that's right.

But that's the only dark thing about it. Uh, it's, you know, often X-braced mandolins are like kind of softer maple, softer top, like Engelmann red maple. But this is sugar maple Adirondack top, you know, so it's, it's kind of like a Lore-ish except the bracing, which is X-Brace.

Yeah, it's a beaut, man. I mean, it looks good, sounds good, all the things.

Yeah, thanks. Yeah, I asked— I think it was the first one he did— I asked if he would do like an F4 finish on it, you know, kind of a red amber finish, just because I love Lores. I love like the old Cremona on Lores, but Man, if I see like a good teens, especially the teens, but also the 20s, like a teens F4, those are just the most beautiful mandolins to me.

Same. I kind of have— I got one from Tyler White now, and that was my finish.

Oh cool.

Preference was like more, more the orangish-reddish kind of.

Yeah.

Just, dude, that's just— I don't know, for whatever reason. It also, I think it reminds me of— this is super nerdy and non-bluegrassier mandolin at all, but it kind of reminds me of like Ace Frehley's Les Paul a little bit that I remember as a kid, like that.

Oh yeah.

You know, so it's kind of like a throw— I think that's part of the The attraction for me when I see that is it just reminds me of falling in love with music as a kid.

Yeah, it's, it's pretty cool. Um, you mentioned Tyler. I'm actually— I'm awaiting a mandolin of his too.

Oh, nice, man.

Uh, but it's gonna be a while. He's, he's got a long list.

Yeah. Are you getting an A or an F?

I'm getting an A. I've never had an A, and I love the look of his A's. in particular. And I feel like the— there's certain things I want out of F models, and, you know, they— of course they are largely the same in A and F, but there are some things that I do find different about them. And, and the way his mandolins look and sound, I really just wanted an A model of his.

Yeah, they're, um— every time he posts a picture of one, or somebody— or I hear a clip of one, I'm like, oh boy, oh boy, you don't need another one. You don't need another one. You know whose, uh, A also rocks too is, um— I mean, this is gonna be obvious, But Jake Howard's got that, um, Nugget A that he'll post videos every now and again. I'm like, dude, absolutely, that thing. Like, I'm like, man, if you ever sell that— I know it's going to be a super expensive mandolin, but please, yeah, please message me.

I've not played, played that one of Jake's, but Jake and I have had many conversations about his Nugget F. You know, mostly the conversations are, hey, let me know when.

Right, right.

Because that, that's that Nugget F from— I think it's from the '80s. It's one of the best mandolins I've ever played.

Yeah, boy, there's so many. And he's got a couple killer gills too that just sound phenomenal.

Yeah, yeah, he's got great taste.

Yeah, yeah, no kidding.

Great ears.

Yeah, and that guy could make a tennis racket sound good too. That's the, that's the funny thing. It's not even just the mandolins, you know, it's just he's such a great player. Yeah, much like yourself, obviously.

Oh, thanks. Yeah, you know, that's the lore about Reichman's lore. is, uh, you know, it is, you know, probably one of the best mandolins, and I've been able to play it once, and it is. But it's funny because, and I, you know, was sitting across from John, and, and, uh, I checked out the Lord, he checked out my Duff, and as soon as he started playing the Duff, I was like, sounds like John Reichman, you know. It sounds like it does when he plays his Lord. So same thing with Jake.

Super nerdy story, but like, well, I, I just was up in the Pacific Northwest at the beginning of this year, and I wanted to go by like, um, Ear Trumpet Labs and, and, uh, Frontboard Journal. Yeah, unfortunately that didn't work out. He had something come up. But part of it too is I wanted to go to Vancouver and, uh, like—

Oh yeah.

And hang out with John if I had a chance. And so it worked out, he was around, and he's like, hey, are you bringing that— are you bringing that Tyler White? I'm like, oh yeah, well, yeah, absolutely, man. And so I figured he wanted to check it out, but he Um, he met me and my wife at our, like, at our hotel. We went and did like a walk on the beach and stuff. And, um, oh cool. But he's like, oh, I brought my Loar. I figured, you know, I just, I want to check out the Tyler White, but I, you know, I know you played it before, but I thought I'd bring it along so you could play. And then we went into like a meeting room and jammed for a while. And I mean, again, yeah, it sounds just like Reichman. And oddly enough, I didn't sound like Reichman at all on his Loar.

No, you know, I kind of still sounded like me.

Yeah.

Not that I wouldn't want to have that mandolin, but Oh my gosh, yeah, yeah, it only makes such a difference. You know, the only other mandolin I've played that I thought had the qualities of that, of Reichmann's, is, uh, Butch Baldessari's unsigned Loar.

Really?

Which, it came up for sale a couple years ago at Music City Vintage Guitars in Nashville. It had been, uh, in care of Butch's widow for, you know, 15 or so years, however long it's been. And that mandolin was, you know, just a total hot rod, and every note was just like a bell. Uh, and it's— it sold pretty quick, and the guy that has it, I'm not sure who it is, but I know he brings it out to things occasionally, so it's floating around out there.

But yeah, man, that's the cool thing too, with like very few people are like super precious about letting you play their lore, you know what I mean? They're— I think that's part of the deal that's cool is like if you know somebody, if you go to a jam where somebody's got a lore There's a good chance though, if you're cool— or not, I mean, and not by cool, I mean don't go up there and be a jerk about it— but like, if you ask some questions, next thing you know, a good chance it's going to be in your hands and, you know, getting to pick it.

Ironically, the only people I've ever had be, you know, stingy or either totally say no, uh, to me playing the lore is just stores, you know, guitar shops, you know. And I'm like, okay, I mean, I wasn't gonna buy it, but I don't know who is if you're not gonna let them play it. Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it's, it's art, but it's also a tool, you know? So you gotta, you gotta find the balance somewhere.

Dude, that's what I loved about, um, Carter when Christy and Walter were there.

Oh yeah, absolutely.

The first time I went there, my wife and I, I think, were the only people in the store because of a snowstorm. And Christy's like, um, oh hey, how's it going? If you want to see anything, let me know. And went into the high-end room that they used to have over there. And yeah, and she's like, oh, here. And she just opened the case up and took out 2 Lores and a Fern. And she's like, just let me know when you're done. She knew I had no—

yeah, I wasn't—

look at me. I mean, just me walking in, you could tell I was not gonna buy a Lore. So yeah, you know, and she couldn't have cared less. She was just like, play, play, please. That's what they're there for. It was amazing.

Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, the Christie and Walter, the nicest folks. And that's, that's who I bought my Duff through because they still own the store at the time and they were handling, you know, kind of the imports of, of, uh, the Duffs and Gilchrists and whatever else came in, you know, from abroad. But, but yeah, nicest folks.

Yeah, they are great, man. What, uh, what picks have you been using, man?

I'm always on something different. I feel like, uh, on this I bet I use like 5 different picks on this album, especially in the studio. Live, I try to stay with the same pick because, you know, I have been doing this for a long time, but there's still this, like, you know, uh, responsibility of the pick, which is don't drop it, uh, that I have on shows. Because, you know, like, I feel like once a year one goes flying out of the hand. And so, uh, live I end up using either Wiegands a lot. And also live, I'm, I'm feel like I'm generally fighting brightness more so live than in the studio. I can kind of like embrace the brightness, but everything's always so shrill live that I kind of like the dark sound of a Wegan and the holes, and it's easy to hold on to. Or I have some Tone Slabs with holes drilled in them, and, you know, same thing. Those are still pretty dark and, and won't go flying out of the hands. But mostly on this album, I would say I used one of the Tone Slabs. We've got so many materials now, but I guess it's the Darth Tone. Because they've got a new black material, but it's not that. This is kind of the shinier dark tone. I love the sound of those. Uh, I've had a bunch of them. As far as shape, I think they're— I've got a bunch that are like 1.5 and 1.4, and they're triangles. And I'm not sure what they call the shape, but it's kind of smaller than your average triangle but not miniature by any means.

I wonder if it's like the tweener. It might be the—

I think it is a tweener. That sounds right.

Yeah, yeah, I've been using a 0.9 recently. Oh cool.

Yeah, honestly, like, you know, the older I get and the longer I play, I, I have gone thinner and thinner on the picks. I used to use the, you know, Blue Chip 60s, and, uh, I can't do that anymore. It just doesn't make any sense. Yeah, I used to use heavy— I used to use, uh, DR heavy gauge strings, and I don't know why I ever did that.

Yeah, what's that? What gauge strings are you using now?

I just use mediums. I, I kind of prefer having like— now I'm not going to use lights because those are too light, but the 11-40 mediums because I can raise the action more with those than I can with the 11-5-41s. Uh, you know, put the 11-40s on, raise the action a little bit, and I get just like a tremendous amount of pop. I feel like, you know, in that situation I get a lot more pop versus if I put the medium heavies on and lower the action to make it still feel good to play, it's a lot more cracked, you know. And I kind of— I lean towards the pop.

Yeah, I love the poppy sound. That's just something about that. Just like, it's the first thing I check. I play an A chop on mandolins, and then I'll do— I mean, there's so many great ones, obviously, and— but yeah, that's how I'm gonna determine what one I'm gonna start doing a little bit of playing on, is like, oh, there's that pop that I love.

Totally. Yeah, that's, that's what I'm after. And I love, you know, figuring out where the limit is on mandolins and like Where does it crack? Where is it smooth and sweet, you know? But, uh, I— and I use the nickel strings too. I feel like sometimes I'm alone in that world. I've always dug— since they came out, you know, like, I don't know, 10 or 12 years ago, the nickel— the D'Addario nickel bronze is like all I've been able to use.

No kidding.

Yeah, they just sound right to me on every mandolin. Uh, you know, they sound great as soon as you put them on. There's no metallic sound that has to wear off, and, uh, they sound better, you know, after like 2 weeks to me. I do wish they'd coat them, you know, if anybody from D'Addario is listening to strings, that would make my life much easier.

But yeah, yeah, yeah, changing it was a— just, I got it down to like, I feel like I'm NASCAR-level string changer now, but it still takes forever. Like, even no matter how quick I get it down, I'm like, I still feel like I'm like, man, I do not want to do this today.

Yeah, and I'm always having to like wipe down the strings on the neck and everything because there's just so much grease on them. And, uh, you know, if I could get that— I love that excess coating, you know, on guitar. I use the excess strings and that coating feels so smooth on the left hand. But, uh, the nickels are still uncoated, but they just overall sound way better to me.

I've always been a fan of your tone. So what are you using live?

Thank you.

Yeah, for sure, man. What do you do in live now for, um, for when you're playing like with Woodbox Heroes or Trey?

Yeah, so, uh, I use a Bartlett clip-on mic, uh, which are made in Weaverville, North Carolina. They're great. They're, uh, little like lav-style mics and it just clips into the F-hole.

Oh, I saw a picture of that.

Yeah.

Yeah, I really dig it. They are omnis, so they're pretty hot on a wedge, you know. Fortunately, both of those You know, uh, mentioned gigs are— we're on in-ears, so it's a little more isolated on stage, but they're pretty live mics. So on a wedge gig, I have to like blend pretty heavily with the pickup, usually 50/50, if not like 40/60. Um, but I cannot use a clip-on mic like a Neumann or what it— like, then honestly, the Neumanns sound better than anything to me, but I have tried and they have never stayed on my mandolin, uh, for a full gig without me punching it and it falling off at some point.

Really?

You know, during, during a chop. Yeah, I just, I think I just have too much motion with my right hand, the way I hold the mandolin or the way I move or whatever. But I've tested the Neumann. I mean, it sounds undeniably better than any other option, but it's just, you know, it's too in the way.

Yeah. And again, if it's gonna, if it's gonna bother you to play, it doesn't matter how good it sounds.

It's gonna be on the floor at some point. Yeah. So Yeah.

Do you have a K&K for your internal?

Yeah, those are the only— those sound the least offensive to me. They're the only ones that like don't sound like bees.

Yeah.

Uh, you know, like even I can use a just a straight pickup gig and be like mostly satisfied. You know, there's, there's no air in it, but you know, I can add some reverb and remove some like 300 Hz or something and it still sounds pretty good.

Are you using the, the Grace, uh, for your preamp?

Yeah. Race Felix. I've still got the Felix 1 that I got like 10 years ago. I've never had a single issue with it. I mean, they just make like incredible gear.

Yeah, they're tanks, man.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, it's been under, you know, 1,000 airplanes and thrown around, definitely had stuff spilled on it. And it still operates as if it were on day one.

That's great. What have you been working on recently? You're another one of those guys that I swear every time I hear you, you sound better and better. And You've got some new cool licks. Oh, for sure. You know, what have you been— what have you been kind of working on currently?

Man, it's, it's, uh, kind of like, you know, on 2 hands, I have to work on mechanics a lot. I feel like now I'm working on mechanics more than I ever have, just because, you know, if, if you don't do that stuff, it just kind of disappears. And also, like, bad habits take over if you don't work on the mechanics. So I just do a lot of, like, If I'm only gonna do one thing a day other than just like play for a few minutes for enjoyment, if I'm gonna only practice one thing, it's more than likely gonna be just mechanics. It's gonna be like right-hand exercises and some left-hand exercises. It's totally non-musical but completely functional, especially like, you know, for Trey, it's like there's stuff that's at like 170 BPM, so I have to be in shape.

Yeah.

But more musically, or harmonically speaking, I've been getting really into like chill mandolin tunes lately. That's, that's been kind of the main thing, like Reichman tunes, Andrew Marlin tunes, kind of slow stuff, very melodic, very controlled, and kind of have like trying to chase like a more thoughtful touch. Because I feel like I've always been a little bit more of a You know, quick, you know, more shreddy-focused player. So I'm trying to kind of shift more to like, you know, just the, the tasteful touch that those guys have and the way they write tunes. Thinking about that.

Yeah, that— yeah, both so good.

Yeah, yeah.

Butch Baldessari too, some of his, uh, some of his albums too, man. Just again, a, a person who unfortunately I think doesn't get talked about as much just because he passed away. so many years ago, but man, I still listen to that. Is it New Classics? It's the one with like the blue—

New Classics.

Yeah. God, so good.

Yeah, I mean, he just had— I think that— is that the album that has A Place in the Heart on it?

Uh, it was. It is on that album.

Yeah. He's honestly my favorite player for his— his tone is so perfect to me. Uh, it has that clean thing that everyone's after. It has a ton of pop. It has a lot of crack in it. It just You know, every— he can play every note that sounds like a bell, and he can, you know, make the mandolin scream at the same time. It's— he just had this magic touch.

Oh man, speaking of, of killer tone, and did you see the versions of, uh, or the videos of Steffi playing at Galax?

I did, yeah.

How exciting!

He was also playing his old Gilchrist that Nick Keane owns.

Really?

Now the— yeah, it's the, uh I can't remember the number. It might be 129, I want to say. But it's, uh, on the mandolin from Every Time You Say Goodbye. So, oh yeah, he played that classic kickoff one. But it's from the batch that, uh, Johnny McCurry and Matty Whitler and Don McLeslie, all their mandolins are all from that same batch.

Wow. Oh my gosh, that's a magic batch.

Early '80s, uh, S-holes, X-brace, you know, beautiful, just classic Gilchrist.

Well, buddy, this album is so great. I'm gonna premiere a track on it Wednesday before this interview comes out.

Oh, cool.

Which track would you like me to premiere?

Nice. Uh, yeah, well, I guess the 2 singles are, are, uh, Ramblin' Herd and Making Some Noise, so not those. But, uh, let's see, maybe the, you know, Red Mountain Wine could be cool.

That was the one I was gonna ask if you would be cool with.

Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah.

But it's so good, man. And then again, like, everything—

Thank you.

Everything— I'm excited every time, um, I see something with you on it. I mean, you're— you've just been for years and years just like, just one of my favorite players. And like, your tone is so great. You always play stuff where I'm like, oh man, What is he listening to now? And I gotta text him and be like— and, uh, it's just great to catch up, dude.

Likewise, man. Yeah, and hopefully we'll catch up here in Nashville when you're here.

Yeah, yeah. You leave— you said you leave Friday?

I do, yeah.

Well, dude, I'll definitely holler. Uh, I'll text you voice text because I'll be driving, but, um, like, as I'm— as I'm getting closer and kind of give you my ETAs and see if you have anything going on or And if Earth One Day works better, let me know.

Yeah, sweet, dude. Yeah, just let me know.

Yeah, man.

Thanks. Anything.

Yeah.

And thank you so much for doing the podcast again, buddy. Congrats on the new album, dude.

Anytime. Thank you.

Appreciate it, man. I'll talk to you soon, bud.

Yeah. All right.

Cheers, dude. Yeah, man. Bye-bye. All right. Thank you so much to Thomas for doing the podcast again. His new album comes out the 21st. It's incredible. The Guitar Collection. Check it out. Buy a copy. It's on vinyl. It's actually got a vinyl with a, uh, like a limited edition vinyl, I believe, as well. I have links below, uh, to his online store. Have a fantastic week. Cheers, everybody!