Hey everybody, this is Daniel Patrick and this is episode number 318 of the Mandolins and Beer Podcast and the 7th anniversary to the day of the Mandolins and Beer Podcast, brought to you in part for 7 years by my friends over at the Mandolin Cafe. Hope everybody is doing well. My guest this week is Bronwyn. Man, what an album she has put together. 3 of my favorite mandolin players, Harry Clarke, Dominic Leslie, and Tristan Scroggins, are featured on it. And Bronwyn's got some great tunes. She's a great singer. She's a killer fiddle player. The album comes out August 14th. It's called Rattlin' Bones. She's got a ton of tour dates. And so catch her on the road. This is a PSA, by the way. I've been seeing this in multiple places now, and it affected me actually this week too. And, you know, I'm rarely on the road compared to 99% of the people on this podcast, but advanced ticket sales, you know, if you're planning on going, Yeah. Just get the tickets ahead of time. Sometimes you actually save a couple dollars, sometimes it's the same price, but boy oh boy does it make a difference for an artist. And, um, you know, I had a thing come up recently where advanced ticket sales were kind of light, very light actually, for, for my Tom Petty tribute band, which was surprising. And talking to the venue, turns out, uh, it wasn't on the website of the venue. So they, you know, you put it on the website and then suddenly ticket sales pick up. But This is a thing. People are getting shows canceled. Uh, it's getting harder to route tours sometimes. So if you're thinking about going to a show, pick up the tickets in advance. And again, you're going to hear I talk about it all the time, but you know, pick up the album. Today's Bandcamp Friday. Pick up the album of your favorite artist. Go out there and support them. I know times are tough, man. I, I get it for sure, you know. But you know, if you go to a show, that helps. If you buy a shirt, that helps. You buy a lighter, that helps. Every little bit you can. If you go to the Patreon, Hint hint of a of a podcast or an artist. It's you know again it's it's awesome that everybody can put this music out there for free, and you can listen to it and enjoy it. But if you really do listen to it and you really enjoy it and you want them to make more music, you know go catch a show and don't buy into the AI nonsense. So let's get into the sponsors who also help make this podcast happen every single week, starting with Peghead Nation. I actually just started watching some Peghead Nation courses on clawhammer banjo. I've got a clawhammer banjo and, uh, I've been trying to pick that up. And, and I started doing, uh, the first couple lessons on there, and man, there's such incredible lessons. And for mandolin, the instructors are Sharon Gilchrist, Joe K. Walsh, Mike Compton, John Reichman, Aaron Weinstein, Marla Fiebes, Chad Manning, Ian Corey, and Ethan Setiawan. And the best part, you know, they have the courses that include the high-quality multi-angle video lessons, downloadable notation and tab, play-along tracks, and plenty of tunes and songs to play. And of course You get your first month for free if you go to pegheadnation.com and use that promo code mandolinbeer, all one word, at checkout. Northfield Mandolins— let's build more than a mandolin together. Check out their website at northfieldmandolins.com or download their app at mandosummit.app for lots of special performance recordings, demonstrations, and special workshops. And their Instagram is absolutely incredible. Every day they're posting some great stuff, and not just stuff that they are selling, but players who have bought their stuff and putting content out there. I think it's great that Northfield is sharing those videos as well. Incredible stuff. Tone Slabs, get yourself a slab of tone. Go to toneslabs.com, check out their selection of picks. They have every size and shape you could ever want. If they don't have what you're looking for, I'm sure they can make it. They can put your name on it, they can drill holes in it, and they have a new material called the Fonz, which is stellar. So go to toneslabs.com and tell them Daniel Patrick sent you. and get yourself a slab of tone. StringJoy Strings. Absolutely love my StringJoy Strings. Actually, I'm hoping to stop by and say hey to them when I'm in Nashville next week. And I love them. I use the Foxwoods. Never a fan of coated strings until I tried the Foxwoods. The process they use is completely different. Actually, I should have him on the podcast. An incredible story. The StringJoy Strings. You can try your first set, your first order, you can get 10% off. Use the promo code mandolinbeer, all one word, at checkout and, uh, get you know, get, get it at stringjoy.com. Paavo Mandolins, dedicated to building for the impassioned player. They're based out of Austin, Texas. And Elderly Instruments. Elderly Instruments is your trusted source for new, used, and vintage fretted and stringed instruments for the experienced to beginner player. Their vast selection of mandolins, guitars, banjos, ukuleles, and did I say mandolins, includes all of the accessories and books to go with them. All instruments are inspected and set up for easy playability, and their down-to-earth and knowledgeable staff are there to help. They're headed— they're in their 54th year, actually. They're family-owned and operated. They're award-winning. They ship worldwide, and you can visit them anytime at elderly.com. All right, thank you so much for listening. I truly appreciate it. Let's get into this episode with Bronwyn. Again, the album comes out August 14th. It's called Rattling Bones. It's incredible. It is Bandcamp Friday, by the way, today, August 7th. So if there's anything you've been thinking about picking up, the artist gets all the money. And, uh, thank you to everybody who signed up to Patreon last week. Had a really good week. Again, you can support the podcast for as little as $2 a month over at patreon.com. Have a Fantastic week. Cheers, everybody. Oh hey, before we get into the podcast, sorry about this. The links of all the things that we talk about—I've been trying to add those now every week. So we talk about things like John McGann, or we talk about songs, and I try to have each episode just be the music of the artist that I'm interviewing. So all the links that we talk about are in the description of the podcast below. Okay, here's Broadway.

Anything goes out on Gallatin Road. You can drive slow or put the pedal on the floor. There's a man playing guitar behind the wheel of his car. Anything goes, I don't care.

All right, well, man, it is an absolute pleasure to have my next guest on. Her new album is coming out on the 14th. It's called Rattlin' Bones, and it is an absolute stunner. I'm proud to welcome Bronwyn to the podcast. How's it going, Bronwyn?

Hey, I'm doing great. Thanks so much for having me.

Oh my gosh, thank you for doing it. I, um, my wife and I were just talking about this. I remember the first time I met you, I was going to do— I think I was going to interview— it was during COVID I remember that, and the Station Inn had just opened. My wife and I were driving, we put your first solo album on. Listen to it twice.

Aww.

And then I got a— I had gotten a text from Josh Rilko. He's like, hey, we've never met, but I'm playing the Station Inn tonight. They're opening back up, and you were the fiddle player that night too. And yeah, and you just blew me away from like the first time I've ever seen you play. So it's, it's really great to have you on.

Oh man, thanks.

Yeah, well, you're welcome. And then, um, obviously you're touring a whole bunch. We, we were just talking about that.

Yeah, so this is like my first full year of like touring with my own band. Like, it was kind of starting last year, but last year like my band was kind of rotating, you know. I was just sort of getting started, and I didn't really have enough gigs to, like, a lot, you know, give anybody enough work for them to commit their whole schedule. And I was also still just getting to know players and, like, you know, what was gonna, what was gonna work for a cool band. But this year, starting in January, it's been, it's been the same lineup, um, which has been just so cool. I've got Tristan Scroggins on mandolin, Frank Evans on banjo, Larry Cook on bass, and Grant Dresnick on guitar. And they're just— I just, I love playing with them. I just feel the music like evolving in a really cool way.

And you're a great front person. I, I saw you when you played in Charleston here at the Poorhouse with you guys and Shelby Means, and man, you command a stage too.

Oh, thanks. It's fun. I, I honestly like, I don't— never really expected to do this until like, you know, sort of recently. I never really like aspired to be a front person, but like sort of the more I got like to do it a little bit, I was like, man, it's actually really fun.

Oh yeah, you know, it's, it's interesting too because I'd seen like maybe one of the first iterations of Golden Highway back in the day. Uh, for those who aren't familiar, Bronwyn played fiddle in Golden Highway. And the, um, I remember that then the next time I saw you guys was at IBMA, uh, in the— it was when like the crazy hurricane blew through and you guys ended up playing in the theater. And I was blown away as everybody in the theater was, 'cause you guys put on, it wasn't just, it was a show. Like, you guys brought it, not just musically, but like, you put on a show and it was amazing. I'm like, oh my gosh, what a cool band.

I feel like we kind of egged each other on, you know, like somebody would do something one night and, you know, it would just kind of evolve and people would keep trying to like, not one-up each other, but almost just like, yes, and like, you know, and it's, you know, if somebody's kind of rocking out super hard, you feel like a dork if you're just like standing there, you know? So then you're like, okay, well, I'm gonna get on my knees And like at the end of my solo, and then, you know, in the crowd, like, it's like fun to just kind of not take it that seriously and just like see what the crowd reacts to and like just kind of ham it up a little bit sometimes, you know.

Oh yeah, no, it was, it was amazing. I mean, I, I was at the show with Josh Rilko and, um, Keith from Picky Fingers, and we were just like, man, what a band, you know. So yeah, it was also funny, it might have been the most nerdy thing I've ever seen. And I can't remember what song you guys were playing, but it was— it was not you guys, but it was ripping along. And I looked down the aisle because I see all these people on their phones, like, what are they doing? And it was people with like metronomes checking the tempo of the song you were playing.

That's hilarious.

It's like next-level nerdiness.

Only at IBMA, right?

Only at IBMA, exactly. Like, I gotta go home and practice again.

Yeah.

So before we talk about this incredible album, how did you get into music?

You know what? So I've been playing fiddle since I was 3, and I started— I guess, I guess we were living in Vermont at the time. I don't even remember this, but apparently I saw some girls busking on the street when I was 3 and asked my dad for fiddle lessons. And so I've just been kind of doing it my whole life. Whenever my parents would like ask me what I wanted to— or, you know, anyone would say like, what do you want to do when you grow up? I'd just be like, I want to be a fiddler. I didn't like really know what that meant, you know. I just like thought it— I just liked You know, I just thought it was like the most fun thing I'd ever done. So I was like, well, that'll be my job. And, you know, it's— so I've never really had like a plan B, um, for better or for worse, but it's, it's always kind of worked out one way or another.

Well, I mean, obviously from your playing, that all makes sense, you know. So what was it like? What kind of teachers did you have at like age 3? Were your parents musicians, or did they get you lessons?

I had a Suzuki violin teacher to start with. And, you know, yeah, so that's like a super common way to get started. But the thing that was great about her was she also taught me fiddle tunes. And turns out I liked the fiddle tunes a lot better. So I would like— I like practiced the fiddle tunes and didn't really practice the other stuff. And I think I only made it through like the first book. And then I think my parents kind of got the gist that like, okay, she really likes this part of it. So they got me a fiddle teacher like a couple years into it.

Wow.

And from there, I just had different styles of fiddle teachers. Like, the first kind of fiddle style I was exposed to was like Cape Breton fiddling, and then Irish fiddling, and did some Scottish, you know, just kind of different Celtic styles. And then when I was like a teenager, I would start to go to these fiddle camps where, you know, they teach a bunch of different fiddle styles. And that's where I heard bluegrass for the first time.

Who was the first bluegrass fiddle player that you were really drawn to as far as playing style?

I think probably Casey Dreesen. I remember somebody gave— at one of those camps, somebody gave me a mixtape of like, or a mixed CD of bluegrass songs, and it had Casey Dreesen's Jerusalem Ridge on it, and I was just obsessed with that track. I just thought it was the coolest thing ever. So I heard that early on. I heard Michael Cleveland. I heard the Del McCoury Band. I heard Stuart Duncan. So kind of more contemporary bluegrass fiddlers was was what I started with, you know. And then like from there you get curious about like, where did they learn, you know? And then you get further back.

Was there— I mean, obviously you said there's no plan B, but there— was there a certain age when you— when it maybe kind of clicked to you like, holy cow, like I really— I think I might actually be able to do this for a living? I think there's, you know, you're seeing people play and doing it, you're getting older, you know. Was there a point for you that it was suddenly like, okay, I think I can do this?

Yeah, I don't remember like a specific moment, but I think it was more of like a gradual thing because like as a teenager, I sort of had— I played in a couple bands, you know, and so we'd play local gigs and I would make some money that way and I would busk a lot. Like, I'd always pay for my— I played for my— all my fiddle lessons and like my fiddle camps with my busking money. So like, I feel I was like already getting this experience of like making a pretty good amount of money as a kid and a teenager through fiddle, you know, and it just kind of— I think that probably just kind of gave me confidence and like, all right, well, I don't have to do another job. Like, I'm making money this way, you know. But then, like, you know, my parents didn't, like, push me to go to college. They were always like, you can go to college if you want, you know. And I met some kids that were going to Berklee or had just— or were about to go to Berklee at these fiddle camps. And I think that's where— and I was like, oh, I like— you got to go to Berklee. Like, I just— I didn't know about any other music colleges. Turns out there's lots of them. But, like, I just heard about Berklee and I was like— So that's, like, the only college I applied to. I just kind of Just kind of went for it.

And yeah, what was, what was the audition process like? Was it harrowing for you? Or at that point, I mean, you've been playing since you were 3, did you feel pretty confident?

No, I was really nervous. I like, because it was like the only school I knew about and wanted to go to. I like played like a Scottish fiddle tune, and then they did this like ear training test, and I thought I was going to be good at the ear training test, but it was done on electric bass. So like the guy would play electric bass, and then I would have to play back his lines and like It was just really hard for me to hear pitches when they're that low sometimes. So I like, I was sort of bummed about that because I felt like I could have done it better. And then there was like a sight reading part, which of course I was like horrible at. So I feel like the only part I did even decently on the audition was like the performing part, you know. But thankfully I got in.

Yeah, no kidding. Who were some of the people that were going to school then around that time? I mean, Berklee has been like, there's just There's eras of it that are— I mean, it's still obviously thriving and there's great players coming out of it all the time, but there definitely seems to be like a, almost like, I don't wanna say a golden era, but man, there are some incredible people like yourself who all kind of came out of there in the same sort of timeframe.

Right. I feel like I just lucked out and I had no idea, but like the year I started in 2009 was the year they started the American Roots Program. And they had clearly, I mean, they hadn't tried to get me to go there. I just went, but they had clearly tried to get, tried to do a lot of like outreach and get a lot of people in that year and the next couple years. So like, You know, Sierra Hall was there, Molly was there, you know, Dom and Kyle were there, Mike Barnett, Alex Hargraves, Sam Grisman, Courtney Hartman, you know, just like so many people, John Mylander. So yeah, and I think some of those people were more like headhunted a little bit, you know.

Sure, sure. So what is the main thing that you think, you know, it's— there's so many things to learn there, I would imagine. But what do you think one of the main things was that you got out of going to Berkeley?

Well, I learned how to improvise. Like, I didn't know how to improvise when I got there, and I didn't really know anything about chords. Like, I, you know, I just kind of come in as like a Celtic fiddler, and, you know, the strong— my strengths were like learning tunes by ear and playing tunes, but like that was kind of the extent of it. And I didn't really have any experience playing through chord changes or even knowing what the notes of a chord were, or, you know, or anything. Like, if you said 1-4-5 to me, I would not have known what that meant.

Yeah.

You know, so just really fundamental things like that that just make it easier to exist in a lot of different styles of music.

So that— if I could dig into that just a little bit too, because I think that is one thing so many people, maybe everybody who I think gets into bluegrass mandolin, the number one question I always used to see like on the Mandolin Cafe or whatever is, how do you improvise? And obviously you can't tell somebody how to improvise, but what are a couple tips maybe that you picked up that helped you improvise? Because I mean, you are a monster player, so I can't imagine any bad tips from you. So yeah, anything, that would be great.

Yeah, and it's actually funny, like, um, a mandolin player there was the one who kind of, I felt like, helped me break through to improvising. So I don't know if you knew John McGann, but—

Oh yeah, I, I never got to meet him, but I— uh, yeah, a legend.

Yeah, so he— I took a few semesters of lessons from him, and he was actually the one— not like I would play fiddle, he'd play mandolin— and he was the one who was able to kind of like— basically what he said was like, start by varying the melody. Like, you know, like, pick a melody you know super well and start making small variations just in the rhythm of some of the notes, right? So like, so you're not going just off the deep end and just instantly getting lost, because that's not really helping you. So just like to make these small changes in the rhythm, small changes in the notes, just like variations basically, and just like practice that and then just push it further and further until you are, you know, getting further and further away from the melody. But like having it based around the melody instead of the chords was kind of the game changer because I was so strong with melodies and I was so weak with chords. If you said like 4 bars of G and then 2 bars of C, I couldn't like—

Yeah.

comprehend where that was in space and how long that would take. But I knew how long a melody would take and like how much time I had in this area, if that makes sense.

Yeah. How the heck did you— like, what did you do to overcome that? That's, that's, that seems like a tough thing. I mean, I guess maybe not tough if you know the melody. Maybe it was a little bit easier to, you know, you suddenly put a chord behind it, you're like, oh, that clicks. But like, did you have to really— was there a thing you did to be like, okay, I've got to figure this out first? What should I do?

Yeah. I would like— I mean, I did everything I could think of. I would like tell myself the chords as I was playing the melody, and I would have to deliberately think, you know, like, okay, Temperance Reel, like, okay, G, G, G, E minor, whatever, C, yeah, and just like mechanically force myself to think about the chords. And then, you know, or just practice like playing the chords, like the double stops or whatever, behind someone else playing the melody. And just like repetition, you know, and just, but just being very deliberate about like what my weaknesses were and trying to raise, like John McGann had a quote, or it was like, you're just trying to raise the level of suck. So you're just trying to like, you're trying to get, you know, what's the worst part of your playing? And then you're trying to make that better. And then your overall playing is better.

Yeah. Oh, that's great advice.

Yeah. Raise the level of suck.

Yeah, man. I wish I would've had, I wish I'd been able to interview John McGann. Like so many, he's influenced so many of my favorite players and people. Yeah, I've got his book actually that he put out, a mandolin book on improvising on melodies like Fisher's Hornpipe. Here's Fisher's Hornpipe, and then like kind of you said, here's a little embellishment. By the time you get to the 5th track of it, it's like, whoa, it's still Fisher's Hornpipe somehow, you know?

Right. I'm sure that's kind of the same thing he was kind of teaching me in the lessons, you know?

Yeah. So then was, was Mile 12, was that kind of your first like big sort of band or traveling experience, or did you do some stuff before that?

No, Mile 12 was kind of the first thing. You know, I remember kind of sitting around with BB in our kitchen, or my kitchen, and being like, you know, I really like— we really want to tour the country and tour the world, and nobody's calling us for gigs. So like, maybe we should just start our own band, you know? And there's like such a precedent for starting bands in Boston. You know, there's been Crooked Still and the Deadly Gentlemen and Della Mae and Joy Kills Sorrow. And so I feel like, you know, we had seen a lot of these bands and the Lonely Heartstring Band and kind of seen these bands come up, and it felt like almost doable. You're like, all right, I just make a band.

We'll just make a band. Well, I mean, there's no shortage of incredible players you're surrounded by at that point, you know.

Our one struggle though is mandolin players. Like, we could not find a, like, a suitable mandolin player who wanted to join our band for like, like at least 2 years. So we were just like a 4-piece without a mandolin until we finally got David Benedict to join.

Yeah, my guest number 1 for my podcast, David Benedict.

Oh, sweet. Yeah, he's so awesome.

So what was it like then hitting the road? Was it, you know, I, it's like road is so weird because it seems like it's going to be incredible. And a lot of times it is. But there's also parts of it you're like, I didn't see this part of the, uh—

Oh, totally.

I didn't expect to break down so much or whatever, you know what I mean?

I think it was a rude awakening for all of us, honestly. It was like way harder than we thought. It was like, you know, just— yeah, I mean, just like house concerts and somebody's sleeping on the couch and another person sleeping on the couch pillows on the floor. And, um, yeah, it was really tough, but like, but you know, really fun, and we had some great experiences. I remember early on, like, we didn't— you know, I booked all the gigs at first, and we just didn't have any gigs. And I was having trouble getting people to, like, email me back. And I remember BB and I making up house concerts for our website because I was like, well, they can't prove that we don't have these gigs, and maybe they'll be really impressed that we have these house concerts, and then they'll book us for more gigs.

Oh, that's amazing.

Yeah.

I can see people's websites filling up with fake dates right now.

Yeah, exactly. You can't put a real venue, but if you put house concert in Des Moines, like, who's gonna check?

Exactly. Amazing.

Super impressive.

So you guys were a pretty successful band. What was the decision to move to Nashville from Boston?

So I moved in 2018, and I was still in Mile 12 when I moved. Like, I was just— I was like dying to live in Nashville. You know, I just wanted to be around You know, the scene had been changing in Boston. People kept leaving. People kept moving to New York or Nashville, and I was just feeling like it was dwindling and I wanted to be around more inspiration. So, I was still in the band, but I kind of finally felt like Alice Wall was at a place where I could not be in the same town as them, or like the touring was getting a little better and stuff. So, I was like, guys, I gotta move to Nashville, you know. And then, yeah. And then, we had one more year of great touring in 2019. That was like our busiest year yet. I think we went to Japan and just like did so much cool stuff.

Wow.

And then COVID happened, you know, and that's— that was obviously rough on everybody. And I think, you know, by the time 2021, summer of that came around, I think some people's priorities had shifted a little in terms of like what they might want out of music or touring, or like some people wanted to start families. So that kind of, you know, that— and then right around, we were starting to have these conversations of like, okay, what does the band look like when we're trying to go back to touring, like, how hard are we going to hit it? And I was kind of more in the camp of like, we need to hit it really hard because we're not where we want to be. Um, and then Molly called me about Golden Highway, and it just kind of felt like the right time to, to make a change.

Yeah, well, I mean, it definitely worked out. I mean, it was— yeah, that's, that's another thing. So you kind of hit that, that golden era of Nashville for bluegrass too, which is like, you know, like, um, I know Keith Billick knows, you know, like Josh Rilko and, and Lindsay— he was in Lindsay Lohan's band and And it just seems— it seemed like all of the sudden, like, I remember actually I went to 2019, the last live show I went to was Billy Strings, Strings in the Hall.

Oh, wow.

And it was nuts. And I remember telling my wife, I'm like, that's like going to something when you're on the cusp of like, it's like going to see Nirvana before Nirvana became huge. Like, you know, this is gonna be something big.

Yeah.

And I mean, what was it like? I love asking people like in your shoes, as somebody who grew up playing music, like busking, did you ever expect— I mean, you guys at the end there were opening for like Brooks and Dunn in arenas.

Yeah, it was wild. And it's— but it's also, it's weird how quickly you can get used to things and how quickly you can just be like, oh yeah, it's like normal. And I would have to try to remind myself like, this is wild. Like, you know, we're opening for Dave Matthews or like playing Bonnaroo and like Doing all this. We just did so many bucket list things, and I was so grateful for them. You know, I, I, I'd not— I don't think I did take them for granted, but just like, you can take that level of touring for granted.

Oh sure. Well, especially if it becomes your daily life. Like, yeah, yeah. Did you, um, did you sit in with Dave when you guys played with him?

I did, yeah. Me and Molly got to sit in with him. Well, it was just so cool because, you know, the Charlottesville connection, and just— I felt like a full circle moment to tell Dave Matthews I'm from Charlottesville and have him be like, oh cool.

That's right. Was he cool?

Yeah, he was super cool. Yeah, he like had me and Molly like back to his dressing room afterwards to hang out with him and his vocal coach and just kind of shoot the shit. Yeah, it was really nice.

Yeah, speaking of that, you also have a great voice. I mean, we've been talking about your incredible fiddle playing, but yeah, you have a great voice too.

I'm not staying around home. So don't give me a hard time, honey, leaving you alone. There might be a mean old world I ain't gonna break. Sticks and stones burning down the highway. Bare-knuckle and bones, I don't need no heart. I've been gathering a whole lot of sticks and stones. Oh, thanks. It's been kind of a new thing, you know, sort of during the pandemic was when I sort of had all this free time all of a sudden, and it's kind of like, what have I always wanted to do that I like didn't feel like I had time to do? And, you know, one of those things was singing. So I started taking some Zoom vocal lessons from Steven Mojan for a while, and, you know, just, just trying to get, you know, more confident in that. And You know, and then just, you know, being around Molly and Shelby, it was like really inspiring to be around like female bluegrass singers that were so awesome. Um, so, you know, it's kind of those 2 things sort of just combined to make me be like, I wanna, I wanna sing.

That's awesome. So now the next question would be, you're also a great songwriter. Like, again, with bluegrass, sometimes you never know if the band writes the songs. I'm— and I got the credits from from, you know, ahead of time. And I'm looking like, oh shoot, she's on, uh, every one of these tunes you have a co-write on, right? Or written or co-written, right?

Yeah, yeah. And that was kind of cool, you know. I felt like the album I did previously where I sang, I didn't feel, you know, I wasn't writing songs on. I was just so new to singing that I kind of felt like, like, who am I to be writing songs? Like, I just need to focus on singing songs that have already been written by people who know what they're doing. But you know, I feel like after like a couple years of getting to know my voice better, I started to like maybe have a better idea of what types of songs I would want to sing and like what feels good, what vibes are good, like what ranges, what kind of melodic structures or, you know, whatever, what I'd want to sing. And then it is hard to find material, you know, and like, you know, and also like most of my favorite band leaders do write some, at least some of their material. So, it's kind of like I should have a catalog, you know. I should Do this.

Well, and the hearing this was bonkers because like none of these songs are like, roses are red, violets are blue, you know what I mean? Like, you would— some people don't write great songs right away, you know?

Well, I've written lots of mediocre ones too.

Oh sure.

That I just didn't record.

But this whole album, every, like, every song is great.

Well, I had a lot of good co-writers. That's the other thing.

Nice. The one song that really struck me. I mean, they're all great, but for whatever reason, the one I've listened to the most thus far would be Rainbow Trout.

Oh, sweet, dude. I love that track.

Oh, me too. What a cool tune. Like, how did you— because that's definitely a little bit different than just straight up bluegrass. It's a little bit different than 145s.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. That was one of the ones I wrote with Pat McLaughlin. I wrote about half the album with him. He was definitely my most prolific co-writer, and it was just— it just felt like the process felt really easy with him. Like, He didn't go too fast and like, it felt— 'cause I'm kind of slow to come up with ideas and I'd had some co-writes with people where I felt like they had written the whole song before I even like could get an idea out, you know. And, you know, and then that's not really that fun. So, he would go really slow and we'd both— I'd, you know, we'd both be able to contribute to the song. Yeah. So, I think that song, I think he might have had the start for that one. Just kind of like a sort of wanderlust vibe, and, you know, and then it just, just kind of came out.

Yeah, the vibe, the vibe of the song fits the lyrics. I mean, it's so— I can't wait for people to hear it, you know, like, yeah, yeah, it's so cool. What's— so what's one of these that you feel like, you know, I'd like to ask you maybe about co-writing a little bit, as far as what's a song on here that sticks out as one of maybe an idea that you felt somebody fleshed out where you were like, okay, I'm getting the hang of this, you know?

Yeah. Well, one of the earlier co-writes was The Ride, and I wrote that one with Melody Walker. And that came out of some lyrics. I had basically written the chorus already, and it came out of, like, lyrics that I'd sort of come up with, like, while being on the bus with Goldena Highway, you know, on just kind of a random tour. And, you know, just one of those nights where you can't sleep and just kind of, kind of, you know, kind of one of those moments where, like, you know, tour is amazing and it's terrible. You know, it's just like up and down, up and down.

Yeah.

And I was kind of like having this feeling of like, man, I'm like, I'm living the dream. I'm living what has been my dream, but there's parts of it, you know, there's times that I'm not happy and like, what's that about, you know? And so, yeah. But then, so I took the chorus to her and she sort of was like, just really, really inspired by that. And like, she wrote most of the verses and then kind of, she was like, we need like some, we need some romance in there. Like, you know, so there's like a touch. It's like, there's sort of like a little bit of a romance angle. Yeah.

That's awesome. Yeah. Who are some of your favorite songwriters? I mean, I'd love to know what you were listening to or some of your inspiration, if it was books or music or what, because this is good stuff.

Yeah, totally. I'm like, one of my, one of my favorite songwriters is Diergil Simpson. I'm just a huge Diergil fan and I love, love all his stuff. And I was, you know, definitely stoked when he put out that, that those Cutting Grass albums and just to hear, hear the you know, the way that his songs can like mutate and change between being country and bluegrass. I just feel like I, you know, I love his songwriting. So I was definitely influenced heavily by trying to have that vibe in whatever way I could, you know. I don't— it's like, you know, you can love a song to death and still not know how to write another song that would be like it without just copying it, you know. So I don't— But, you know, and I think there was like one song that I was like reading this I was reading this book, and like the, um, the wishing well, I was reading this book by one of my favorite authors, um, and it was sort of this like Southern Gothic novel and had all this imagery of like, you know, and like it's like the, the bad evil stuff is happening. There's like this mist that comes off the river, and I just had this idea of like mist and sort of creepiness. So that kind of came from a book.

But who's the author?

No, um, wait, I'm blanking. Alex Harrow. A-L-I-X Harrow.

Yeah, awesome. So let's talk some— we've got to talk some dirty mandolin stuff as we're a nerdy, nerdy mandolin podcast here. But, uh, you've got just the cream of the crop on your album here. Uh, Harry and Tristan and, um, Dominic. I mean, 3 of my favorite players and 3 of the greatest people ever. Um, how do you— this— how would you define the differences between those 3?

Oh, that's an interesting question. Um, man, I feel like they all have like, like there's similarities, and I, I feel like, like Tristan leans more hard-driving bluegrass. Like, I, you know, I, I feel like he's somehow a little bit more in that vein. And, and obviously Dom leans more towards the David Grisman, um, like kind of, you know, he can, he can really play jazz, you know. And, and, and Harry, you know, definitely has some of the, some of the Dom energy, but I feel like I hear like Tim O'Brien in him more too, like honestly in his playing and singing a little bit. But, um, I don't know, I feel like they both like The Venn diagram of all 3 of those, there's a lot of commonality in all their playing, just like a lot of spontaneity and creativity and just like, and like amazing technical skill, you know, and a lot of taste.

Yeah, just gripping mandolin playing on the album too. It's so good. Yeah, I recorded with Harry at the Tractor Shed. We did a song together and like the first take was like the take. But then we had— I'm like, well, you want to keep going? Just do some more. I mean, we have time. And we did like 5 more versions, and every solo he took was completely different than the solo before. Like nothing even remotely close, and all amazing.

That's awesome, right? And that's the feel like with all 3 of those guys. And I, I shouldn't even say that Tristan leans more bluegrass because all of those guys are equally bluegrassy in their own way, you know. I just maybe— oh yeah, maybe Dom has more jazz flavor as well or something, but like I was stunned to see how aggressive Tristan is as a player live.

Like seeing him live, I'm like, gosh, he hits hard. Or he plays hard.

Yeah, I know. I know. We've been playing this, uh, Strength in Numbers tune live at a couple shows and like half the time he breaks the string on it. He's like so into it.

Yeah. He's so quiet. Like I didn't expect him to be such a powerhouse on stage cuz his personality is so like, oh, hey, how are you doing? So nice and kind. And I'm like, oh my gosh.

I know. I know.

I guess you could be calm if you get it out playing like that.

Exactly.

So you were talking a bit about, um, when you were in Mile 12, like the, the hard time finding a mandolin player that would fit the band. And so for, you know, for mandolin players listening, what's some advice you give them that you were seeing, like mistakes that mandolin players would make that you'd be like, I mean, they, they might be a great player, but the— but this, or, you know?

Oh, I mean, I don't— yeah, I I think it's just sort of like their overall, you know, just what, what they bring overall, you know, that like the timing and, and the tone and, and, you know, and, you know, what they— their— and their taste, you know. I think like the tease, right?

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Yeah, I think that like that is kind of the most important stuff, and that's sort of what you like look for— timing, tone, and taste.

Aside from, from those, those Players that you played with, do you have like some favorite classic mandolin players whose playing you really like?

Oh yeah, I mean, I'm a huge Ronnie McCurry fan and, and Sam Bush, you know, both of those guys are definitely at the top of the list. And Tim O'Brien, I love his, love his playing as well. And, you know, all 3 of those players are so different, but like, it's like apples and oranges. You can't like say who's the best. It's just like, what flavor do you want?

Today. Oh, exactly. Yeah. When everybody's like, people ask like, who's your favorite mandolin player? I'm like, oh my God, I'd have to break it by genre, by era, by like—

Right. No, I know. It's like—

I could never.

Crazy.

So, and now, and also you're married to Jason Carter. How much fiddle playing do you guys do at home? Is it, do you guys pick it up and play a bunch or is it like you finally have time together? Let's just hang out and not do anything music-wise.

Yeah, I mean, gosh, we used to play a lot of fiddle together, like, you know, when we both had a lot more free time. I feel like before we started bands, we had a lot of leisure time when we were home and could just do that for fun. And now it's just like, oh, have you booked hotel rooms for this weekend? And like, you know, oh man, my emails are piling up and like, I gotta do the, you know, blah blah blah. So we really have just been trying to prioritize like just person time rather than, you know, go on a walk or something rather than fiddling. We got to— I was like, we got to play last night with Charlie Warsham. I did a twin fiddle tune with him down at the Station Inn last night, and it was like, it was like, oh wow, we've got like— thankful to him for us to have like a reason to like, you know, pick up fiddles and play together. So yeah.

Like what you're doing, how much— for people just, I guess, to put in perspective, like Putting tours together, like, you know, how much, how much work? Like you said, booking hotel rooms and all that stuff. It's things that people don't think about when they're going to see an artist. They're like, oh, I think I'll go over and see them. And they're casually thinking about it day of, and you're like, first off, please buy advance tickets.

Right, exactly. Like, I'm so scared. Right. It's like we both got managers and booking agents, but there's still— that still leaves gaps of like tasks that are not really either of their jobs and like kind of, you know, would fall on like a tour manager or us because we don't have tour managers. So like, you know, booking hotels and then it's like, that's not even as easy as you would think because like you have to screen for bedbugs. I learned that the hard way. Literally the first Bronwyn gig I ever did outside of Nashville, I booked what I thought was a perfectly fine Best Western Plus in North Carolina. If anybody ever hears about that hotel, never go there.

Holler.

'Cause all the rooms had bedbugs and we didn't notice until, you know, some people got bit and, you know, and it's the middle of the night and you're trying to find another hotel. And now the hotels are super expensive 'cause it's the middle of the night. And so like, now I just like, before I book a hotel, I like search the— I search bedbug, bedbugs, and then, and then one word and two words on the Google reviews. No kidding, that's how you do it?

Okay, I was just gonna ask.

You would be horrified. Yeah, you would be horrified how many of them, like, it's like 70% of them have a mention of bedbugs. So it's like kind of a— and I'm kind of paranoid because like I just had that experience. I'm like, literally, this can never happen again. So I'm like, just not going to book a hotel that ever has a mention of bedbugs, except for New York City. Sometimes that's just like literally impossible because, you know, but then you, then you just look for a review that's like 5 years ago or like later, you know, and then you're like, okay, hopefully they've dealt with them by now. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Did it get in your— Did they get in anybody's luggage and stuff? Did you guys have to like fumigate it or what?

Thankfully we didn't. No, thankfully nobody took them home. But like, we still like ran our stuff through the dryer and, you know, oh, they're just so gross. I just, I'd never seen them in real life.

Yeah, knock on wood, I haven't either. I always lift the first thing I do at any hotel now is I lift the mattress real quick and just like, same, look for anything, any reason to possibly leave.

So yeah, yeah.

You know what, the other thing I thought was great too is you've got your, your merch situation is— was, was really killer as well when you were at the Charleston Poorhouse. And that's, that's another tough thing. I mean, hopefully people are gonna buy and physically buy this album. I mean, I know it's like screaming at a wall sometimes. I say it every episode, support the artist.

Yeah.

But it's just so easy for people to listen to the music on, you know, streaming and stuff like that. But It's expensive to record an album. It's expensive to hire these players. I mean, these players are A-list players. The production people are A-list production people. The songs are incredible. This is like, you know, this didn't magically happen for free and it was done in a closet at somebody's house with, you know, playing every instrument or AI. You know what I mean?

Oh, so yeah, it's hilarious, honestly, like how much it costs. It's just like, and then you, and then you put it up for free for everyone to listen to, and then you hope that they even listen to it. And then you hope that maybe some people buy it in physical copies and maybe it'll get played on the radio. You know, that the radio really helps, um, sometimes. But, but yeah, it's, it's, it's like a giant, very expensive publicity tool almost to just get people out to the shows. Like, it's weird.

Getting— that's— yeah, it's so hard. And like, like, social media is so scattered with things. Like, Even I miss shows and I try to be on top of it and I'm like, oh wait, Sam Bush is here next week or whatever, you know? I'd be like, what? How did— like, how was this getting by me? You know?

Right, right. Totally.

Well, I'm glad you're out there too. I mean, your tour date, your calendar is looking awesome, you know? What's up, man? It's, it's so cool.

Thanks. Yeah, it's been really fun. And like, you know, I've been just like, like stoked that people are coming out to the shows, like, and, you know, and like playing places I've never played before. But then like, you know, you've got 150 people there and you're like, that's amazing. Like, thank you guys for like taking a chance on this, you know?

And yeah, man, that's awesome. Well, I've got, I've got 2 more questions for you. And the first one is kind of nerdy, but like, um, if you had something to recommend for just 10 minutes a day for somebody to play, what would you recommend to help them get better?

Oh man. I would, you know, I would do 10 minutes. Um, I maybe— I don't know, like maybe, maybe, uh, like record yourself for 5 of those minutes and spend the other 5 minutes listening back to what you did.

Oh, that's—

Because like I think maybe the fastest way that you can get better is being like super self-aware of your tendencies and your issues, you know. So like play whatever you normally play for 5 minutes and then, you know, be pretty critical about it and just honest with yourself about What do I want to sound like and where is it falling short?

Yeah, yeah. Oh shoot, you know what I should have asked you too? Your gear. What do you use live for your rig, your tone? Your acoustic is so hard to sound good live, I think. What do you use for your live tone? Because it sounds incredible.

Oh, thanks. I've got a Grace Felix and I've been sending 2 lines out. I send like a DI line. I've got a, you know, a Baggs DI on the fiddle, and I also use a Neumann clip-on mic, and I've been I like separating the lines because, like, just— I like to just have the DI mostly in the wedges so it doesn't feed back, and then front of house can blend both of them. So the DI gives a bit of a stronger tone and can kind of overcome any, like, you know, volume issues. And then obviously the mic sounds better. And then, and then the DI goes through my effects loop too. So just the DI chain goes through that, and I can, you know, add some pedals and stuff.

Yeah.

So I don't know, that's what I've been doing. It's like there's pros and cons to everything, right? Like having the DI line be the one line going through the effects loop probably makes the effects a little weaker. Like it would be— they would be stronger sounding if it was the full signal going through. But I think there could be, you know, I don't know. I don't know that much about sound, but people have told me there's weird stuff about sending a mic signal through a DI chain or effects chain. So. Yeah.

What kind of effects do you like to use?

Man, well, I've got this like organ sound, which is cool. I can't remember what it's called, but it's— I'm sure if you— yeah, I wish I remember. The organ sound is super cool. I've got like an octave and just a reverb right now.

How's the octave work for you? Did you have to do anything to tweak it? I guess maybe my problem is I also have double-core strings, which probably sound weird with an octave, but you know, that might be But yeah, do you have to do any weird settings or do you just kind of find something that you liked?

Yeah, no, I did. Yeah. And I wish I remembered what that one was called either. I'm like out of the house or I could go like look at it, but it's one of those octaves that has like a low one and a really high one. So you can do like, you can do that and, and you can also adjust how much of the sound of the pedal you want, like from 100% to 0%. So you can just add a little bit in. So it's, yeah. It's kind of cool.

Editor's note here, Bronwyn was awesome enough to text me as soon as we got done and she got home and let me know her pedals. They are the Neo Instruments Mini Vent for organ sound. Her octave pedal is an Electro-Harmonix Pitchfork, and the reverb is a Source Audio Collider delay and reverb pedal. So there you go, those are the pedals, and thank you, Bronwyn, for letting me know. And then the, uh, the final question for you is, you're not a beer drinker, so I have a reserve question, and that question is, do you have a favorite fiddle tune to play?

Oh, favorite fiddle tune. That's tough. Um, I feel like right now I really like Sop in the Gravy, and I always really like Road to Columbus. That's go-to. And, and Gold Rush. Maybe those are my top 3.

Nice. Yeah, those are all great ones. Tough. There's not really too many bad ones. I can't even think of a bad one off the top of my head. So I know. Yeah, I just heard the first— have you heard Jeff Davis before? That has been my favorite recently.

Davis. No, wait, is that a tune?

It is a tune. Yeah, it's, um, I'll send it to you. It's the, uh, a link to it. Oh my God, I can't think of the guys now. Uh, Chris Cool, the Lonesome Ace String Band do it.

Oh, those guys are great.

Yeah, it's like my favorite tune right now, and it's just super simple, but I've been playing it every day. Actually, I think Norman Blake wrote it.

Um, oh, that's cool.

Yeah, I'll send you a version of it, uh, when we get done. Um, but I think you'll dig it.

Awesome. You know what another cool tune is that I wish people played? Is this tune— you know that tune Neely's Dance? It's like off a Brian Sutton record.

Oh, I'm sure I do. I have all of his stuff, but I'd have to look.

I think it's such a great tune. It's just like an A tune, and I just think it's like really catchy. So, huh, I don't know, I'm always like pushing people to learn it.

I know, you got to get— we got to get the next Salt Spring out there.

Yeah, it totally could be the next Salt Spring. I think it's even in A.

All right, perfect. We should— let's try and make that happen. Just, uh, yeah, we'll will it into the universe. No offense to John Reichman. I love it. John Reichman's. But yeah, you gotta have a new one.

Exactly, exactly.

Well, Bronwyn, you're like a you're so cool as a person, and you're like a triple threat with the the fiddle, the singing, and the songwriting. And I couldn't be happier for your success. And this new album is so good, man.

Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to it. Absolutely. Wanting to talk about it. And yeah, I just really appreciate you.

Yeah, no, for sure. Anytime if you have anything, please never never never. about reaching out or have somebody reach out to me. I'll help promote whatever I can. I want, I want this music to survive, and I want the people playing it to be able to survive playing music, you know, more importantly. So yeah, well, thank you so much.

Yeah, thanks for having me. It's fun talking.

All right, there you go. The album Rattling Bones comes out next Friday, August 14th. Depending on when you're listening to this, it could be out currently. It comes out on August 14th. It really is great. And I wanna thank Bronwyn for doing the podcast. I wanna thank everybody for listening. Be sure, if you're enjoying this podcast, again, just a reminder, you can support me for as little as $2 a month over there on the Patreon. Have a fantastic week. Cheers, everybody.

Cheers.